Hello everyone,
I'm back again for another post in the same vein as last weeks. I did enjoy the post as it gave me some new insights on the best way to field the Immortals and how to play with them. Again thanks to everyone who commented last time around and thanks to Unknown, Kylare and Jack for the comments I didn't get the chance to reply to with being away.
So the Gorgon Terminators....
Now as you have probably seen on the blog, I currently have five Gorgon Terminators completed. When I bought them initially they were one of my first ever heresy units so I armed them in the way you can see above. Again I wasn't going for a competitive build, as I wasn't playing games with them at that point. Currently I am a bit underwhelmed by the Iron Hands special units so I was hoping to see if for the next five, I could find a better way to field them.
So without posting pictures of the rules or stats on the blog, i'll just note down some of the key special rules and weapon options below for discussion:
- The price for them as shown above is 200 points and 35 each (which doesn't seen too bad to me)
- Legiones Astartes Iron Hands (For the -1 strength to shooting)
- Implacable Advance (Allowing them to take objectives, where the Immortals can't)
- Feel No Pain 5+
- Gorgon Pattern Terminator Armour (To me it doesn't seem very useful, allows them to have the blind special rule in combat)
As for weapons they can swap their power axe and combi-bolter for:
- Power fist or Lightning Claw
- Chainfist
- Pair of Lightning claws
- For every five also have the option for a heavy flamer, autocannon and graviton gun.
- As for the sergeant he can't change from the hammer but can take a combi-weapon, grenade harness and cyber-familiar
As for my experience using them, its pretty been poor so far. It is likely down to how I have the weapons set up or how transport them but I am looking to change that as my gaming experience grows.
So how would you field the Gorgons? Let me know about what weapons you would take and what tactics you would use for them?
Thanks again and comment below,
Aveinus Kaane
Gorgon terminators are a much better unit than Immortals when compared to their counterparts.
ReplyDeleteOne thing you forgot to mention is their reduced Initiative (it's only 3).
This penalty doesn't impact them when it comes to offense, as they all have Power Axes (which frankly, if you're running heresy Terminators and you are not Sons of Horus, Power Axe/Fist is the statistically best choice when considering Take All Commers (TAC) army lists).
Defensively, however, it is a drawback, as it makes you more likely to be swept in combat if you lose, and also more difficult to sweep enemies (not to mention needing a Leadership Check first).
Cost wise, for 5 points per model, you're getting Feel No Pain 5+, and a free upgrade to a Thunderhammer on the Sergeant.
For an Apothecarian attachment, you'd be looking at +45 points (instead of 25), assuming you didn't equip him with any wargear.
So we get to this point, side by side normal terminators, they're a steal.
As for equipment. The Graviton gun is bad. Even with relentless, strength tests on 1D6 aren't scary, and AP4 isn't threatening either. If it was AP3, and maybe Str-1 test, then it'd get competitive, but as it stands... not so much. Graviton guns are bad and you should feel bad if you want them. (Except fluffy people, they are narratively in sync with the Iron Hands).
The other downside is that they can't all take combi-weapons, which when coupled with a delivery system makes for a very punchy unit to suddenly throw out 10 plasma shots before charging. Something most heresy Terminator users love.
Lastly, they're in Tartaros terminator armour (fluff wise it's Indomitus, but rules it's tartaros), which means no 4+ invulnerable save, but also means you can Overwatch and (as mentioned above) Sweep. As such, it is my opinion that the Heavy Flamer is the best choice for their 1/5, in order to take advantage of this.
Gorgon Terminators are best used against things that lack AP2, which I realize is not a shocker, but what I mean is that even more so than other Terminators and TEQs.
This is because you want to consistently proc the Gorgon Blind.
5 of these Terminators can tie up a 20 man tactical squad with ease for an entire game, when they are hit on 5's, wounded on 4's, and then have a 2+//5+ to stop from losing models.
20 man tactical squads clock in at 225 without upgrades, so they're edging out an advantage there. Their Implacable Advance also means that they are a scoring unit which is great for contesting.
Against AP2 wielders, they still squeak out slightly ahead of Cataphractii Terminators, and substantially ahead of Tartaros. 5+ invuln, 5+ FNP, is better than a 4+ invuln only.
I've also hit the blind off on a unit that was only 6 or less inches away during the enemy shooting phase, which made them reconsider charging.
All in all, if they're not performing for you? Regular Terminators wouldn't be performing either. Gorgons only pay points for their Feel no Pain, and get their Blind for free.
Sergeants should almost always have a Cyber-Familiar to bump their invulnerable save to a 4+, which lets them challenge as if they were in Cataphractii.
I apologize if this was a bit of a longer of a post than you were looking for, but they're a unit I routinely enjoy, but I don't look at them as anything special - just Terminators who have bonus cool rules.
I wouldn't use them exclusively over normal Terminators, however, for the only reason that I do like 5 man units with 5x Combi-Plasmas way too much. But Gorgons tie up infantry hordes amazingly well, and mastering the art of multi-charging with them only adds to the appeal. Mine typically bomb around in a Phobos, which recently got a point discount and just love getting stuck in.
If you have any questions about what I put here, feel free to reply.
Cheers mate.
I second these points, a 3++ invol, 5+ FNP and a 2x str multiplier weapon makes for a pretty impressive challenge character.
DeleteWithout Slow and Purposeful while still keeping a 4++ majority invol these guys can chase down tanks quicker than Cataphractii Terminators and with more durability than Tartarous while tanking anti infantry fire with the -1str Legion Rule and their 4++ save and a 5+ FNP (Meaning you need str9 or higher to remove their FNP, and then they still have a 4++).
These guys are great for hunting large tactical squads (Lightning claws), Vehicles (Chainfists), moving up in the front battle line vs the static backline unit that is Immortals. Because these guys have scoring they lose nothing compared to normal terminators or other legion terminators (Alpha Legion Axe Volkite dudes with hard to spell names, Suzerians, Phoenix Termiators, Justerian, etc).
Okay, a lot of these points are smack on the money as far as I see it. Graviton guns are conceptually fun, but the rules are a bit weak. I will point out they do provide a haywire option, but if you're shooting at vehicles with the squad, the rest of your squad is useless due to being stuck with combi-bolters. Since Gorgon Terminators can overwatch, the heavy flamer is a great choice, doubly so if you're gonna have them holding objectives.
DeleteI will add however that the first commenter here is wrong in one way - rules-wise, the Gorgon armour does NOT share rules with Tartaros armour. It specifically says "Gorgon pattern Terminator armour is treated exactly as normal Terminator armour", and normal Terminator armour has a different rules entry in the new red book than Tartaros armour. Gorgon terminators can NOT do a Sweeping Advance, sorry. With only I3, that's a less harmful loss than it might be at least.
Personally I would swap the power axes for fists every time. The primary advantage of axes over fists - them not being specialist weapons - is totally wasted on terminators due to the lack of pistols. At 5pts a pop for fists, it's worth it every time in my eyes, unless you're really stretched for points.
Taking a single lightning claw instead also seems like it could be useful to me. It depends what you're deploying them against, really. If they're going to be clashing primarily with stuff like tactical squads, assault squads, etc, then the lightning claw is a fine option (although you should also give them a grenade harness there). IMO, a pair of lightning claws is a poor choice though - it totally wastes their potential for overwatch, and seriously reduces their objective-holding potential.
So my best advice would be heavy flamer and either fists or single-claws. The lack of deep-strike option is a shame, but send them flying across the board at objectives in your enemy's deployment zone. They can tear through most objective-holders fairly effectively, and can hold objectives themselves pretty fiercely. I'd use a transport for them as well personally, but that's a matter of personal taste I think. If you want to try having them footslog instead, I guess your best move would be to send them tearing their way directly through enemies rather than around. That 5++/FNP combo will help keep them alive pretty effectively, they're just as good in combat as regular terminators, and their special blind rule might help you out along the way.
Much like your first commenter I wouldn't use them exclusively over normal Terminators. I'd combo them - Gorgons to hold objectives, and normal Termies for pure murder.
Just a shame the IH don't have a deep strike option for Termies outside of certain rites of war. Being able to drop a squad of Gorgons directly on an objective in the enemy deployment zone would be great. Something to keep in mind, at least, if you're ever using the Orbital Assault RoW.
Oops! I stand corrected. You are right, Tartaros is its own entry. I was under the impression there were only two, Cataphractii, and Tartaros representing all that isn't Cataphractii.
DeleteThanks Kylare!
Question for the suggestion of power fists. Which set would you use on the models? I've been thinking about getting them but I don't know if the Tartaros will fit the Gorgons. Thanks for the great Gorgon review!
DeleteWow thanks everyone for the comprehensive review! The more words the better! The break down is excellent.
Delete@Unknown I didn't even think about them being tactical squad hunters and I always assumed the blind rule was just a bit rubbish but i'll definitely be remembering to use it from now on. Also I am thinking of using Cataphratii too, I have ten and the new Iron Hands shoulder pads look excellent. I'll be looking at using the combi weapons with them for sure!
@Jack thanks again for the comment, as above having them with a lighting claw and chainfist seems to be a great idea for allowing them to take on most units. But deploying them towards big tactical squads and objectives is a great idea too.
@Kylare yeah I think out of the five man squad I will definitely swap the axes for fists for 5pts although the all lightning claw and flamer is a great suggestion if I use them as objective hunters. Very interesting I'll have to mull it over but the consensus is to definitely use them with normal termies!
@QuantusTempus I'm pretty sure its the tartarus weapon upgrades that fit them as the Cataphractii have the tassels on the shoulder guards built on to the arms :).
@Quantus/Kaane, regular plastic terminator fists fit. The shoulder pads are even separate to make it a very smooth transition.
DeleteThis should have been my first tip off to what Kylare pointed out >_>
Really awesome looking miniatures !
ReplyDelete