Wednesday, 18 February 2015

Khall; the Future of Warhammer 30,000 Model Range. My hopes.


We don't really comment on rumours on this website. A) we dont want any trouble and B) its sometimes nice to just get surprises. However, I certainly read a lot of rumours (thank you to Natfka et al) and have done since getting back into the hobby. One thing I have always found constant is the fans having a list of 'needs and wants' that largely go unanswered by Games Workshop. One thing I always wanted to see was Primarch's on the battlefield. Never stop believing.

I am not discussing validity of rumours, as I have no idea, but I want to discuss what I hope to see based around the rumours a lot of us will have heard:

Ad Mech - the fans have been screaming for a mechanicum army for as long as I can remember. In both 40k and 30k they are every bit as active/necessary as the Imperial Guard/Army. If the rumours are true my only real question is 'why has it taken this long?'. Rumoured to be coming in April, please stay tuned for Drakes opinions on this faction.

Genestealer Cult - rumoured to be on the way. Again, a MASSIVE fan favourite and one that we were planning on converting ourselves for Great Crusade campaigns. Really hope this one is true. 

Deathwatch - not around in 30k so lets skip past this.

Horus Heresy Starter Boxed Game - This. 100% This. My hope is that it is actually a Great Crusade starter (to not step too much on FWs toes. It would be awesome so get some plastic MK II, III, IV, V & VI armour sets that can be used with the FW upgrade packs. It would truly be the best way for the business to progress. It will lower the initial outlay for fans and enter them into a resin fuelled realm of debt :D see you there!!! The rumours suggest that FW will be available in your local store too...oh god...

So what do you think will be in the starter? I presume it will be based around one of the Istvaan battles and will come with 40 odd marines. Would be great to see some limited edition plastic characters in there that haven't been touched by FW yet - Lucius, Little Horus, Torgadden etc. Then maybe a tank or contemptor. I would pay for hard!!

Now we are seeing small codexes like the Harlequin one, I really want to see GW listen further to fans and do some other factions. Ones that can cross between 30k and 40k:
Hrud, Terrelians! Sci-fi beastmen, Exodites, Generic space bugs, anything that will make it easier for ALL fans to field the forces they want.

What would you like to see? Where do you see this going (if true)?

Seems like interesting times are coming.

Khall :)


  1. We knew that GW were doing a Skitarii force as soon they failed to show in the first 2 Heresy books. They are coming.
    Horus Heresy starter set: This makes 100% sense that they will do this. £96.50 is how it stands right now for a 10 man squad with all Legion accessories (heads, pads, and chests), come on that is mental. FW have already got the 10 man Legion accessories pack for £38.50 for most of the Legions now. This with the fact the Imperial Fist Sword Brethren and Breacher squad were released as just Torsos and arms no legs. This shows to me that in my opinion a starter set with mk3 and mk4 options is on its way. Certain key figures were missed from Isstvan 3. As Khall and I discussed this could also have 2-4 key characters in the box such as Little Horus, Lucius etc.
    this will be very popular, I just pray that stupid minis and poor designs don't make an appearance and that GW don't step on FWs toes!!!!

  2. Im on the fence I say leave FW be and don't let GW have any input to 30k.

    On the other hand it would be nice to see GW step up and produce quality over quantity and stop pandering to 23 yr Olds with there comic book style releases

    Just my 2c

    1. It was Grim-Dark, now it seems to be getting to Hasbro Grim-Dark. FW came round at the right time with their Heresy Range. Never been happier with the Hobby. If GW puts Leman in a Sled; I will picket outside GW HQ.

  3. The rumor on HH era starter set is that it will be a number of MkIV marines and Cataphracti for some sort of standalone skirmish game, but also with rules for going into to 30k and 40k. This set is to fill the void left by the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit games. A second starter set is rumored down the line and will be MkV marines. The other rumor is that HH era Rhino is getting a plastic kit. Obviously GW prime wants to make profit off the HH but I think they trying to avoid stealing out from under FW by only doing the models that have for FW the disruptively high sales volume.

    I think GW's failure to capitalize on all three of the these armies for so long, AdMech in particular is a lack of data. Players knew AdMech would be popular, but GW doesn't do market research so any decision made by the CEO would have been a "gut feeling" which is something that doesn't fly too well when you have investors. FW however is allowed to take many more risks, because they're smaller and volumes to break even are equally small. FW made AdMech minis and that success gave GW the data to take this risk.

    For a significant time GW's marketing has been driven by sales to new players entering the hobby, the reason being that establish players don't spend as much since they already have armies and GW's only significant sales to them are new kits for those factions. Horus Heresy 30k has shown to GW that veteran players are willing to buy into new armies. Not only that, but this sales to established players is actually their only sales growth. I think the Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus, Genestealer Cults, and Deathwatch are all armies designed to appeal to these established players. They all require a bit more detailed grasp of the setting.

    GW doing a HH era set is GW chasing profit where profit can be found. The HH stuff is great but the high demand has really stretched FW's production capacity to the point they can't really do much else but HH. FW's manufacturing in resin also minimizes GW's ability to capitalize on its own size and industrial capacity. FW's models are made the same way as any third party garage kit manufacturer, but GW can claim a much higher margin by producing plastic models. So the starter set makes a lot of sense.The models won't look as crisp and I wouldn't be surprised if FW retires certain sets in favor of forcing us to use the plastics. At the same time I also wouldn't be surprised if different upgrade kits are redone to better complement the plastics.

  4. I'm very much on the fence as well, on the one hand there is the fact that it will be cheaper to get the basic infantry and as a Fists player it's a cheaper way to source parts for the Templars & Warder upgrade kits so bonus too right. On the other hand, some of they're line just doesn't hold up to forge world, comparing MKIV helmets for instance, I think the forge word one is far superior to GW. So long as the aesthetic that FW has established for the range is adhered to I can only really see it being a good thing.

    Then of course, should they start writing rules, background etc, believe FW to be a much more coherent unit, than the writers at GW, and I think it shows in they're quality. Now I know there's nothing at the moment to suggest they will be taking over in this department, and I hope it stays that way.

    Finally there are some smaller concerns that I personally hold:
    - The paint systems they have established of base, shade. highlight, I think weathered damaged armies look far better for the HH than a edge highlighted clean, of course personal bias, but the three shade systems I believe doesn't leave enough room to learn or develop new methods/tools
    - Choice, so long as FW don't discontinue they're power armour I'd be fine with the idea of models, if someone doesn't like the aesthetic, they have the option to go FW or GW should they wish for whatever reason.
    - Limited Ed. Personally I boycott majority of limited releases from GW as I don't agree with it, and I'd hate to see the HH go this way.

  5. I would genuinely love to see plastic 30K rhinos blazing around the board as well as, well executed plastic Mk III IV marines etc. I think the market is well established for GW to finally shed the donkey that is the LOTR franchise and capitalise on the HH series which lets be honest is what made Rogue Trader era gaming narrative cool. I have my reservations as with most, but pricing is the key.
    FW are in serious stretch when it comes to the sculpting front now, Si Eagan, Will Hayes and the others were set up to fail had it not been for the injection of new blood in the sculpting front to bolster the staff. This I feel has caused some other issues, the aesthetic of early sculpts we all love had slipped slightly with new artists. Some like this others don't.
    When it comes to Primarchs and Character models I want Eagans calling card slipped in and will Hayes eye on the armour aspect. But that's my personal preference.
    I just hope If GW do take on the HH series they give it the love and attention they gave the re-release Space Hulk and that any characters are more aesthetic FW than GW bubblegum.
    Having said that Krom Dragongaze and some of the new plastic characters have been really good.
    Plastic Thunderhawk anyone....? LOL

    1. The dream of a plastic Thunderhawk is the only reason I have not purchased the FW one. With a Thunderhawk Landing pad and the New Sokar Stormbird coming out it could be closer than we think?
      I would only be happy with standard armour variants, copied from Forge World's established aesthetics being made into plastics. Nothing else. It should be used as a Gateway into the FW range, not a complete takeover. FW are still planning Primarchs so I don't believe we will see them in Plastic, but some characters like Gabriel Santar etc would be appreciated in my opinion.

  6. I firmly believe GW should take over production of the basic HH range, ie Marines, Rhinos, Dreadnought chassis leaving FW to produce the Legion specific kits. This would make it easier for new people to get involved with playing HH and reduce costs for people buying armies. It would allow GW to take advantage of their greater production capacity and freeing FW capacity allowing them to design more ranges of models/equipment.

  7. I'd have to disagree in part Dave, I'm with Drake on this. I'm happy for GW to produce sets to help 'feed' people into the HH era gaming, and to produce plastic 'variants' of the FW aesthetic but beyond that FW should remain the driving force behind HH gaming and the kits should remain available for people to choose resin over plastic. That way the average 14-17 yr old entrance gamer can afford to start an army within the HH era of gaming and those of us more 'experienced' gamers (lol) that have the desposable income to support their hobby can still chose the quality over quantity aspect that FW provides.
    I do agree with your point about the production aspect though. That point alone would allow GW to bolster the HH range rather than take it over.
    A plastic Contemptor would be a nice addition to a plastic range as would a plastic Deimos chasis. And you're right that it would free up FW to sculpt the more niché stuff definately.

    1. I do believe a Plastic Contemptor is on its way too. This is because of the new Dreadnought Chassis FW made. FW do have Legion Specific Contemptors which means they will still be making money.

  8. Great news and if all true (how much of this is rumour and wishful thinking?) then mad respect for GW! So long as they can find the right balance with FW, keeping the same aesthetic and level of quality without extortionate prices I think every gamer will be stoked! I do hope the character range stays with FW though! Looks like I will have to start my 30k World Eaters army after all..