Horus Heresy Astartes Core Army list preview

Hello Bunnies!

We have been lucky enough to have access to all the books for 3rd edition and I’ve been looking and theorising what this all means for the game. Below is an overview of the new Liber books core army list for the space marines. There are a few things to say upfront; a lot of options have gone. This mostly affects the HQs (now High Command and Command), they have all lost access to any form of bike. The consuls are now (mostly) only as they can be brought from GW and so lack customisation in wargear options. These changes have already lead to a lot of emotions following the leaks of the books online! We have not had sight of the legacies PDF that is coming out and I think it’s highly likely many of the options will be in that…hopefully! I really feel for those who’s armies are hugely effected by the changes and I went through it from 1st to 2nd so I feel your pain. I am really looking forward to seeing how the new rules for the units work on the table and I'm genuinely excited for this edition of the game as 2nd really wasn’t the version for me. I am thinking that this edition brings back the narrative feel that I want from the game! 

List building:

A note around list building, the community site did a good job of rounding up how you build your lists. You can basically take what you like but with some limitations. The main thing you will need is centurions or consuls. A High Command gives you access to some special Apex detachments or a regular detachment. Centurions and consuls each give you access to a detachment. Centurions come with Office of the Line (2) which gives you access to 2 detachments instead of 1. I suspect at 3k, assuming no Primarch, you’re very likely to needing to run 3 High Command/Command. This is probably change to the amount you’re used to running in 2nd edition. 

Rites of War as they were in 2nd edition have also gone but the detachment system will let you replicate the bulk of the previous rites. The one thing that you can’t do is run a full drop pod list currently. Rites of war are now your legion special rules.

The 3 core missions all use progressive scoring, meaning you score each turn. Nearly all units can score in some form, with some notable exceptions, however Line units will really help as they score additional points on top of the objective standard. So an objective worth 2VP will be worth 4VP to a unit with Line (2). Vanguard units, such as terminators can only score 1VP for holding an objective but do score for removing other units that were holding objectives. The notable exceptions I mentioned will no doubt upset any White Scars player even further, given you’ve (for the time being) lost access to any bike characters, cavalry are excluded from scoring. Cavalry units include all forms of bike and speeders, so basically the White Scar army as it was often run. Vehicles and automata are also not able to score. 

I am going to give a brief overview of each of the new battlefield roles the units fit into. I will not go into to much depth as for the most part if you’re familiar with the previous editions it will look fairly to you. 

Image from Warhammer Community website

High Command:

3 options but technically 5 all of which are differently suited Preators. Artificer, Artificer with a jump pack, Terminator clad (tartaros and cataphratti) and finally the new Saturnine clad version. All of these options come with the Master of the Legion, which is now a bonus reaction point. These have retained most of options for wargear that they had. The Saturnine is as it was shown on the community site with no further options. Terminator options are toughness 5 now, this is the same for the standard terminators as well. 

Command:

15 options here, which is great as you will likely need to include a few of these. Centurions have the most flexibility in  character options and as noted above much of the rest are now kitted out as sold with minimal options. I will also note that most of special rules that each consul had have gone. Some of this has moved to wargear but some of it has just gone. Chaplains are the stand out here as they no longer give you any special rules. Now I think the reason for the loss of rules is 2 fold, advanced stats and game balance. The advance stats vary across each of consuls and each can be used by the unit so some of the benefits that the special rules used to provide is rolled up in these stats. I also think balance plays an important part due to the way that list building works. I personally think it’s good that Chaplains don’t provide re rolls or fearless as you would likely see several of them in every melee focused army. 

Retinues: 

These are now separated out from the HQ choices, which is great. These look good, very melee focused as you would expect and all options are here, with the exceptions of any form of bike and saturnine. They have also added in an extra level of retinue called a Centurion command squad, which is cheaper and on a 3+ armour save. 

Elites:

This used to be a very filled area but it now only features 3 units. 1 of which is new, the Veteran assault squad. These are better assault marines with WS5 and wide access to special weapons. Interestingly the standard veterans have lost all forms of melee options and are now a shooting platform, going to WS4 and BS5 The are basically built to carry the new disintegrator weapons as these are the only real options for them. The do also have Line (1) in shoot form but it seems like a real lack of options compared to previous. Seekers round out this section and are now your combo weapon wielders if you need. 

Heavy Assault:

Terminators! 3 varieties, Tartaros and cataphratti are both now toughness 5. Cata now come with volkite charger as standard. The Saturnine are as previewed. 

Troops:

Tactical, despoiler, assault and breachers. The first 2 have Line (2), Assaults lose Line in favour of Vanguard, and finally breacher have Line (1). 

Support:

Heavy weapons, support squads, rapiers, apothecaries, techmarines, deathstorm drop pod and the new Araknae weapon turret. Heavy weapons squads score one less VP when holding objectives, which I like as a nice balance to them possibly sitting on a back field objective. The community site had revealed that heavy weapons can now move and shoot but they gain a benefit for standing still which again I think is a nice change. Apothecaries have changed and how require a reaction to gain the benefit of recovery test which reduce damage by 1 to minimum of 0. The old feel no pain rule essentially but limited to a reaction use, no instant death also means you can use it against any attack. It is also a shooting reaction so no benefit in melee. Again this feel like a great change to me, as it was all a bit to easy to get an extra save in 2nd. The Araknae looks fine, can give invuns to models wholly within 3”. 

War-engines:

This is the new home of dreads, and they have seen some positive changes. They come in detachments of 1 and no more, no talons either, which limits the quantity that can get into a list. They have stayed at wounds but the damage on weapons brings them back inline which would be enough of a change for the good for me but they have taken it a step further and reduced all the WS and BS of all of them to 4 rather than 5. The points are down slightly too. I like all of these updates, potentially a step to far but they still look awesome and are one of the iconic units of the heresy and even better you won’t feel bad for putting them on the table now! 

Image from Warhammer Community website

Transports:

Rhino, drop pod and termite. Rules changes are the main benefit and downside here. You can now charge out of any vehicle but it will be disordered. Disordered loses your set up move and basically means you can change D6” out of a non assault vehicle. You can also move the vehicles full distance before getting out. Which could lead to some big moves. Drop pods and termites have the same issue if you want to run a lot of them. You can only deep strike 1 unit a turn from turn 2 onwards. Which essentially limits the number that you can run. Good news is no scatter and you can now take 1 in an army rather than needed to go full orbital drop. 

Heavy Transports:

Land Raiders and Spartans aren’t hugely different. No flare shields for the spartan any more and it can take laser destroyer arrays instead of lascannons if you wish. Hull points are up on both in line with the damage now on weapons. All of which feels good and lines them up with dreads nicely. Also gone is exploding in 1 shot. We also have dread drop pods, same issues as regular pods, also on Saturnine dread in the drop pod. We also have dreadclaws and kharybdis drop pods, which are now flyers. Flyers are interesting and could be viable options again, but that will require extensive play to work out. In theory they seem like good potential options to get troops where you want. 

Recon:

Recon marines main change is to the nemesis bolter, which has lost some range and gained the heavy trait. They also don’t get as many VPs for holding objectives. You also have Sabres and land raider explorators both now with outflank. Outriders are here too, and look similar, though they do have vanguard which will be good for those White Scars players who have them. Tarantulas are in recon as well, they give up less VP if killed on turn 1. 

Fast Attack:

The 3 planes, interesting potential here. You select a mission for the plane but you still need to roll, at the end of your turn it comes off the board but then you must roll again for it to come in from reserve again. Testing is needed to see how these work out but my initial thought is planes could be a possibility again! Jetbikes are the same but can’t score and have no vanguard so very much mobile firepower. The speeders have stayed as wounds which again is no longer a problem with the damage on weapons. Javelins have lost access to any other pintle mounted weapon other than the heavy bolter, seems like an odd choice but again the kit doesn’t come with those options and we see the profile reflect that. Both of the speeders can be taken in squadrons. 

Armour:

The rest of the non transport tanks, not much changes here except for the hull point count on all tanks. They all seem to have received a point reduction as well. Definitely feels like the tanks will be a lot better this edition. 

Lords of War:

Again a similar story to the rest of the Armour, increased hull points. The 3 big tanks are all here so that basically confirms that we will see all 3 variants in plastic to go with the previewed Fellblade. Thunderhawk, Stormbird and Mastodon are all present still as well. Thunderhawk and Stormbird are unlikely to see regular play. The Mastodon looks much more viable that previous editions. 

Finishing comments:

That wraps up the space marine core list. Overall a lot of what you would expect, if fact near identical to the 2nd edition Liber books. The only other thing worth mention is the wargear is listed separately to the profiles and the profiles say things like ‘ Can take weapons from sergeant list’. This means some flipping or scrolling but does add a lot of flexibility for GW to alter point costs or even add items, which I think is good! 

I like the list overall and all of what I could want is in the list. Yes options have gone for characters and that’s a bit of shame but I think we will see this expanded as we see more of the Journal Tactica’s and probably in the legacy PDF. I would say many of the changes are positive and better for the game but I do suspect we will see some backlash to missing parts. For me though I’m pleased with core list. 

Happy gaming!

Andy

Horus Heresy 3rd Edition Rules Review

Hello Bunnies!

I’m aware that the rulebook has now been leaked online and there are quite a lot of upset people. I truly do feel for those of you who have armies where updates to wargear are going to make some of your army currently invalid. I went through similar in the change from 1st to 2nd. We haven’t had sight of what is include in the legacy PDF yet and I think this will restore some of what is missing. I know it’s a challenging time but stay positive folks the game is great! Let’s dive in to my thoughts!

We have been lucky enough to have access to all the books for new Horus Heresy 3rd edition! We have some great content coming across all our platforms today and in the coming weeks! Below is a round up and review of my thoughts around the core rule book (Spoiler I'm overwhelming positive about this version!). Later today I have a round up and review on the core Space Marine army list. Next weekend or possibly sooner we will have legion overviews and then I will be doing a bit of a dive into my armies to see how that now looks. In the mean time, I genuinely think this is a fantastic update to the rules and the game and I am once again hyped to get back to my favourite game after 2nd edition killed it for me!

How big is the change? I would say it’s both big and small! It’s big because realistically you’re going to need to read the rulebook front to back. It’s small because actually the game is still very similar in the way it plays. The main thing is that there are a lot of clarifications and changes to wording that you will need to know and that have a big impact on the way the game plays. For instance all the special rules are called the same but very few function the same way. Shred is prime example of this, same name, entirely different rules! So let’s jump into the changes that stand out, you will need to be at least familiar with 2nd edition to understand some of my comments.

Rules writing:

I’m impressed with the clarity of the rules as a whole. They have made a real effort to make sure that no rule can be disputed in the way it interacts with the other rules of the game. I have not read a GW game that seems to be this precise. Of course more playing may highlight mistakes or inconsistencies that I haven’t yet seen but overall it looks like they have made a very tight set of rules. The down side of this is that it is quite wordy and not easy to read but I’m happy to take this in exchange for rules that work as intended and can’t be abused. Fingers crossed I’m correct in the long run and it survives contact with the whole community!! 

I really like how they have put in a clear order of how to apply each rule and the process of doing so. I also really like how they have added in a 1 sentence in bold that gives an overview of the rule for quick reference and to jog memory. Then under this is give you the full details if you need further clarity on how and when to use the rule. Clear step by step sections are added in across the board, which again takes away any debate on when something should happen. There is also a clear start and end to the player turn that are used for certain effects and rules. Everything has a place and everything makes sense! Which surprised me!! 

Movement: 

Very similar to what you’re familiar with. Running has been renamed to Rush but is done in the same way as 2nd, add initiative to your movement, no shooting or changing after. Reserves have a particular sub phase to be rolled for and brought in. Again another example of how the rules are very clear on the process of your turn and actions. 

Shooting: 

Clear rules to follow but no real changes in how this operates. Weapon profiles are the real change to talk about here. Damage characteristic are a really good change in my opinion and they have done a great job of adding them but not changing the overall feel of how the game works. 40K this is not! Very little has anything higher than damage 3, outside of special rules applied such as melta. No random damage on any weapons. The damage characteristics have now also brought dreads and speeders back in line with the rest of the army list. Tanks work mostly as they did with armour facings and rolling to pen, more on tanks below. Moving and shooting heavy weapons is now possible thanks to the Heavy rule which gives bonuses for not moving. Again this is good to keep things mobile around the tabletop and not leave you missing out too much. 

Assault:

Assault is very different to previous editions. You now make a set up move that is between 1-6” depending on your initiative and movement speed. Then both sides can make volley shooting attacks with Assault weapons (pistols basically). You can upgrade your volley to an overwatch at the cost of a reaction. Once volley is complete you then roll 2d6 and discard the lowest and that d6 is then your charge distance. If your set up move is enough to get you into base contact then you skip the volley and rolling for charge as you’ve already made it! 

In theory with the right unit you can charge 12” but that is probably just as hard as it was before. I do think that medium length charges are now very reliable and as a whole I think the changes are going to reward good play and planning. No bonus attack for charging now either. Weapon skill chart is the same as 2nd. Statues might apply restrictions to charging. You can still charge with 2 of the 4 statues on your unit but it is disordered. Disordered means no set up move so only a d6. The disordered rules are also very specific about you not gaining the benefit of any rules that require a successful charge, which is a great example of how the rules try to address all of those loopholes that were sometimes exploited. 

Challenges:

Challenges are nothing like they have even been before. I’m a big fan! It’s fun to play, tactical and allows for those big primarch on primarch fights to feel great and actually finish! Those that can issue and accept challenges have gone down too which is great as sergeants in tactical squads punching out named characters or preators is now gone! As is the stupidity of 2nd edition challenges that were often punishing to the more higher ranked model. 

Now the only person you can issue a challenge is the player who did the charging. The reactive player can spend a reaction point to issue a challenge if they want. I think this is a great start to the rules for challenges and can help you plan out what to do if your opponent still has any reaction points left or has used them all up. Once the challenge is issued and accepted, there are rules if you refuse too, you move onto the sub phase proper and each player picks a gambit starting with the active player. The reactive player then selects a gambit but it cannot be the same one the active player selected. Once your gambit is selected you move to focus step where you roll off apply a series of positive and negative modifiers. The winner of the role off gets the challenge advantage and gets to make strikes first. Initiative is a modifier applied to the focus roll and has no effect on who strikes first, the winner of the roll off strikes first. The strike phase works as any combat does. Once all strikes are resolved then you move onto working out who has won. What is interesting here is that the player with the challenge advantage can choose to keep repeating the above steps and thus keep the challenge going in that player turn until there is a clear winner which means you can perform a full Primarch vs Primarch battle all in one turn! If the fight isn’t what you want or you might lose your model and as long as you have the challenge advantage then you can go to the Glory phase which affects the wider combat result. I am really liking this rule set and I think it will be great fun overall! Yes it will probably slow the game down but being able to get to the end of epic duals that will have an impact across the rest of the game is really cool! 

Statuses:

Statuses are a new edition to the game and expand on rules such as pinning from previous editions. Each status tends to be linked to one of the new advanced stats. Currently I’m not sure on what impact they will have on the game. Weapons that cause status checks are not very prevalent so I am not sure how often they will come up. Routed is likely to come up the most and it isn’t hugely dissimilar to failed leadership checks of previous editions. I am happy they are in the game but impact will need to be judged in the longer term. 

Reactions:

I loved these at the start of 2nd, that turned to some dislike, to a lot of dislike by the end of 2nd. A lot was down to armies being build to take advantage of reactions, and they often also shut down some play styles. If you were an assault based army you would tend to be better off not shooting your guns to save you from the return fire. This seemed a bit of a weird way to be forced to play. I was hoping they would be gone or we moved to alternating activations. However they have stayed but I was quickly surprised that they many of my issues had been fixed and I now think they are looking good overall. Limits are now in place! Which is a huge tick from me! A unit can only react once per turn now, rather than per phase. If you have a status you generally can’t react either. You now have reaction points, 1 up to 1.5k, 2 up to 3.5k and then more beyond this. These can be used at any point in the turn once a trigger has been reached. Wargear that gave reactions out, like augary scanners, have changed and no longer give you free reactions. The reactions all have clear processes for them and there is a lot of different reactions completing for your limited resources. Some have also changed a lot or been adjusted in the affects. These very simple changes have changed my mind on reactions and I am less concerned about the impact they will have on the game compared to 2nd edition. No psychic power to shut off reaction, which is great news and people may look at other disciplines for psychic powers! I actually think they maybe fun this time around and I really like that if you want to get any benefit on your opponents turn you will need to use a reaction point. For me I like that! 

Vehicles and tanks: 

Vehicles kept armour facing and they have all gained hill points to reflect the weapon damage changes. The vehicle damage table as we knew it has gone. Glancing hits now cause the vehicle to gain a statues which is roller on the vehicle damage table. The glance doesn’t remove a hill point though unless you apply a status the vehicle already has. Penetrating hits don’t roll on the damage table but reduce hill points by damage stat on weapon. This means no more blowing up to one shot and general much more resilient than we have seen before. All very positive! Vehicles can target different units with all weapons as well, though if they do so they must snap shoot. They can also move full and still shoot normally. You can now move through your own units with a tank and through enemy units as well, enemy units take hits and can make use of Death or Glory, which is now a reaction. You’re also not restricted to half move for disembarking from a vehicle, so you can move full and get out. The only thing you can’t do is move the vehicle some and then get out and then finish moving the vehicle. You can also assault out of any vehicle, but you’re disordered if you do so, which is then only a d6” charge. 

Flyers:

These are hugely different. They can be rolled for from turn 1 and come in on a 3+. Once passed you choose a mission, drop off, pick up (which removes a unit and any status they had, they can then be brought back next turn), shoot and shoot better. You then come in do your move, do your shooting and then get removed from the table and back into reserves. What is interesting is that you’re never on the table for your opponents shooting phase, which means using the intercept reaction is the only way to bring them down and intercept gets buffs and debuffs depending on the mission chosen for the flyer. What I’m still not sure about how good or bad it makes the planes is that once they are removed from the table they can come back on next turn. The part that I’m not sure around is that you still need to roll and each time you come in gives a modifier to the roll required, +1 for each time it’s come on. So turn 1 3+, it arrives and is removed, then on turn 2 you would need a 4+, 5+ and then 6+. So it gets less likely that the flyer will come in. I could see your flyer coming in consistently twice in a game, is this enough time on the table it will remain to be seen. The other interesting point is that you can bring a unit in from reserves, then you go back into reserves and you could pick up and drop off another unit that is in reserves. This would allow you to buy 1 transport for 2 or more units. I see potential with the flyers and potential more so than in previous editions. Fingers crossed for plastic storm eagles! 

Psykers:

All new psychic powers, very clear rules on what they do and how to do it. I will admit that I haven’t read too much into these yet. Units do gain psyker traits so powers are no longer linked to one model, unless the unit is only 1 model. When you cast with a power you unit only 1 model can do so and you select the focus for the power. This would likely be the person with highest Willpower. I think these look interesting and on the surface seem like good changes that will make Thousands Sons more playable this edition. 

Terrain:

It has some loose rules around what to count terrain as, nothing to extreme but potential for some good options overall. Terrain also has placement rules for games as well. Options here for narrative games but I suspect easy options might be used for pick up games or events. 

Other stand out changes: 

• Snap shots depend on your ballistic skill. A BS4 model snap shots on a 5+. A BS10 model on a 2+. 
• Higher ballistic skill doesn’t provide rerolls now but adds critical hits special rule to you roll. BS7 would hit on a 2+ but on a 5+ is a critical hit (Critical hit auto wounds counting as a 6 and adds an extra point of damage). 
• Night fighting has gone. 
• Games are 4 turns and scoring takes place at the end of every player turn, only 3 missions in the rule book. 
• Wound allocation is done by reactive player as in 2nd ed but the good news is units tend to be only 1 save, so no artificer to tank on! Hooray, I was not a fan of the 2+ save taken all the wounds. 
• There is a start and end phase to the player turn, which is where certain actions sit that need resolving. Great that these things are thought of. 
• Deep strike is from turn 2 and only 1 unit per turn, no scatter, no drop pod armies currently due to 1 per turn limit. 
• Outflank is from turn 1 and outside of deployment zones and 7”  away from enemy unit. Again no charging. 
• Objectives are controlled by tactical strength calculation, similar to LI. 
• Blasts no longer scatter in the way, you place your blast then roll to hit like any other shot. If you hit the blast lands where you place it. If you miss you scatter d6”. 

Final thoughts:

I’m really impressed with the rule set! I think nearly all of the points that I disliked (see last week’s post) about 2nd edition have either been fixed or addressed in some way. Why some of these changes had to wait 3 years and an edition change I don’t know but now that the changes have been made I’m very much looking forward to playing Hersey again! I’m currently optimistic that this might just be the best version of the game rules so far and I really hope that I feel that way in 10, 20 and 100 games time! 

Happy gaming! 

Andy

Goodbye 2nd edition...I won't miss you!

Horus Heresy has always been my favourite setting and when it was first released by Forgeworld officially over a decade ago in 2012 with the Betrayal black book I quickly adopted it from 40k. It was basically the only tabletop war-game I played since then. The original was based on 7th edition 40k and while 7th wasn’t a good version of 40k it worked very well for 30k. After a good long while of using this ruleset we were gifted 1st edition Horus Heresy! It was glorious! The peak of the hobby for myself and many others that I know and played with regularly. I was playing every week at my club, I attended events consistently and had so much fun playing the game I loved! To go along with that I have met some incredible people along the way! 

Then came second edition, I was excited and hyped for it! The main range moving to plastic, is great for getting new players into the game and starting new armies myself! The buy in for a full Forgeworld army was substantial! I took the opportunity to get a shiny new army done in plastic and my Salamanders legion was born. My Sons of Horus that I had played for a decade had changed in both point cost and playability. The army increased in point cost by 800 or so and with the rule set changes it didn’t function as before. That was ok, I had more than had the use out of the army and fresh edition fresh army was the way to go! Early games were mixed but I figured that would improve as we gained familiarity with the rules. Unfortunately that was not the case. I attended my usual events but the games were not the same, I was enjoying it less as I felt the game had pivoted to a more competitive space and armies were being built to take advantage of the rules rather than for the love of a legion and the setting. Over the last 2 years I have gone from playing nearly every week at my club to playing a handful of games in last year. Opportunity to play hasn’t gone away but desire to has. Basically 2nd edition all but killed my love for the game! I’ve still had some fun games over the last 2 years but that has come from playing the right people with the same approach as to the games as myself. Something that I found in abundance in 1st ed. 

There is a big long list of issues that I don’t enjoy about 2nd edition that have ultimately lead to me moving away from the game. This is a list of stuff that has bothered me and I know others have different feelings around this stuff. 

• Reactions not being limited. Getting intercepted, returned fire and overwatched is not fun to be on the receiving end of. 
• Wargear that cost 5 points and gave you a free reaction. 
• Dreads with wounds, no problem in principle but not fully thought out. 
• Wound allocation, artificer armour tanking was not fun. 
• Primarchs lost the feel they had in 1st, more beat sticks and less army buff. 
• Tanks didn’t match dreads in output or survivability but the points were not dissimilar. 
• Brutal seemed to be around for dreads but also lead to whoever had the best brutal won the fight, especially when it came to Primarch on Primarch. 
• Nemises bolters, yes sniper rifles needed an upgrade but this took things too far! 
• Charging from deep strike and outflank, lead to a lot of swing in games that lead to big wins and loses.

The lack of FAQ support has been frustrating too, even more so when Old World has just become a vastly different and better game via an FAQ so why not Horus Heresy? Seeing a lot of the previewed rules from Games Workshop over the last couple of weeks has lead me to believe that the lack of FAQ support was because they have been busy writing 3rd! 

I now feel hope has been rekindled! 3rd edition is coming and it is shaping up to be a big improvement and I am seriously hoping it gets me back to the 1st edition vibes! 

So for me it’s a very happy goodbye to 2nd edition and fingers crossed that 3rd is what I hope it be! 

Keep a look out lots of coverage on 3rd edition through the launch! 

Andy