Hey all!!
So Roboute Guilliman is coming round the corner and I am so damn excited. Today I wanted to discuss what I feel should be Rob's statline along with why I think so. I will follow this post up with a potential special rules discussion.
WS - 8. I think that Guilliman should have a high weapon skill. This is for 2 reasons. 1, Guilliman fought in the GC for well over a century and enjoyed a very successful career. In that time he used a plethora of different of different weapons (as shown in his weapon hall in 'Unremembered Empire'. 2, Guilliman held his own against his brothers; Angron and Lorgar. He fought well against Curze (wounding him twice and only taking a glancing hit). He is also the only loyal Primarch known to have killed a Primarch.
BS - 6. Fairly standard I think.
S - 6. Standard again.
T - 6. Standard again
W - 6. Standard
I - 6. He wasn't a slow Primarch but he wasn't the fastest.
A - 5. He was known as the Warrior King. To me this suggests he was a efficient and competent fighter.
LD - 10 of course.
We know he is armed with a Gladius and Powerfist. I presume he will have special rules depending on which he uses. I think he will be able to split his attacks too, like Horus.
He is pictured with an Iron Halo so he will have a 4++ save and I believe he will have artificer armour too with a 2+.
So, what do you think?
Comment below
Khall
I agree with all you said. What I am really looking forward to is to know all his buff for the space marines. I see him more as a support primarch than a close combat monster. I can see some tactics that would allow him to give a lot of flexibility to his force. Well I guess Warhammer World grand opening will tell us all about it. Finger crossed
ReplyDeleteCan't bloody wait!!
DeleteOnly loyal Primarch to have killed a primarch....? That's almost true. Don't forget whilst not said in so many words it's heavily alluded to and widely know that the Vlka Fenryka censured 2 whole legions. So I'm guessing Russ has already 'had' to kill at least 2 of his brothers.
ReplyDeletePlus Robouté hasn't really killed a primarch as such :)
As for the rest, ticks all the boxes defo.
I imagine his rights of war will be pretty cool too I'm looking forward to Aeonid Thiel personally.
I was very careful in my choice of words here ;) lol in the fluff it is stated he killed Alpharius. Russ is hinted at but not known for sure...he could well have taken them to the emperor alive...
DeleteTechnically, Russ killed Magnus. He broke him. Only his soul survived because of sorcery.
DeleteHe broke his back. He didn't kill him if I recall correctly.
DeleteOh Khall......Khall, Khall, Khall what makes you think it was really Alpharius? ;P
ReplyDeleteBecause if you ask any one in the Alpha Legion that the only response you'll ever get....
'I am Alpharius...' It's like Sparticus only better lol :D
That and the fact there are genuinely '2' of Him.
I very much doubt if Russ was sent to censure anyone, as with Magnus, he would hold back.
He was only sent to give Angron a warning and that ended in full scale warfare.
Back to the original thread though the fact that Robuté fights both Angron and Lorgar wounded says A LOT. That and his little void warfare outing in KNF with no helmet.
Ark, Ark, Arkidy Ark Ark! Lol! ;) all alpha legion call themselves Alpharius, we know that. However, when Guilliman slew Alpharius/Omegon the legion reacted very differently and rallied around the body. They don't do that for everyone called Alpharius do they? It's in the fluff since before the Heresy novels began. Before they were 'Legion'. It may change but all evidence suggests Guilliman popped Alpharius. Plus, Guilliman knew his brother. I don't think he would have got confused between a Primarch and a normal Astartes.
DeleteAh.....now here in lies the problem. In the previous Heresy fluff there was only Alpahrius, now there's two of him lol ;P
DeleteBefore I would have agreed whole-heartedly now we're in un-known territory.
As we've seen throughout the last 8-10 yrs BL has gone on to change many aspects of original cannon to suit the current re-telling of the Heresy and the 40K timeline also.
I'm not against it at all. But it will make for significant story arc changes. Like Vulkan for instance. I won't elaborate for those that haven't read up-to-and including URE yet, but it's those kinds of changes that have an affect.
Hmmm that seems pretty good, but I think WS7 would be more accurate. As you demonstrated, Rob is a skilled warrior, but FW will probably put the emphasis on his talents as a general.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, all Primarchs are naturally overpowered fighters compared to humans or Astartes, but I assume that only some of them try to excel in the art of killing. Most of the WS8 Primarchs are skilled AND really fond of fighting: Fulgrim is a passionate swordsman, Night Haunter is a natural born predator, Dorn is the Emperor's praetorian, Horus is the "better than you in almost everything" guy, etc...
WS7 seems to be an easy way to depict either agressive Primarchs unleashing their "natural", sufficient skills (Mortarion, Ferrus...) or those who are conscientious fighters without enjoying it (Corax, Vulkan...).
In my opininion, Roboute belongs to this category. He is a politician above all: war is part of politic and weapon skill is part of war, so he can't ignore it. :^)
But don't worry, with two different weapons (most likely a PA2 sword and a powerfist), 5 Attacks I6 and some cool special rules, I think he would still be a decent fighter without ranking among the WS8 murder beasts club. ^^
I agree. I think he will be more as a buffer Primarch than an all out close combat beast. If he is both then he would ether be op or a crazy amount of points lol
DeleteAye, but in the WS8 club you also find Rogal Dorn and Perturabo. I picture these 2 as generals rather than combat monsters. The WS7 Primarch's are the slow and sluggish, power Primarchs - Ferrus, Vulkan, Mortarion etc. The only exception to that is Corax (if you look at his special rules you see why). That's why I see Guillimsn as WS8.
DeleteThis is a pain in the arse situation as I don't / didn't see Perturabo or Dorn being WS8 and I would have likened Guilliman to them the most.
ReplyDeleteBut as it is either all 3 should be 7 or Guilliman should be 8 to get inline with them.
Attacks 5 I agree with.
I am looking forward to the Special Rules.
Like the statline. I reckon he would be more uber but as pointed out a bit earlier he will be an extremely buffy Primarch so will be interesting to see his rulings and rites of war. Do reckon he would have a high WS but with Perturabo where he is, for example, its hard to work out how FW will play him out.
ReplyDeleteRobuté is a Tank! Primarch or not, anyone who struts around in the void with no helmet on, dealing justice to heretics and traitors is nails in my book. ;D
ReplyDeleteAnd Dorn whilst some could say more 'combat' orientated in what we've been led to belie is now the Praetor of Terra and is kicking it on the side lines for the next 4-5 yrs in the time line until the Heresy finally reaches Terra.
I say give Robuté his WS8 an tack on some brutal rites of war I think he'll be awesome.
I was a bit surprised by the statline of Perturabo, WS8 was unexpected for me too. But this guy is brutal and loves to be underestimated, so I assume I have been deceived too... |:^.
ReplyDeleteIt's all a question of points cost. WS8 plus the awesome buff we expect from Guilly it would make him very costy, but it's perfectly acceptable as long as he is balanced. ;^)
In fact, I imagined Guilliman with statlines similar to Alpharius and a bunch of special rules based on "knowledge is victory" to make him both a buffer and a warrior. My friends and I homebrewed a rule that made him reroll his To Wound dice after the first Assault phase against an enemy unit, and it wasn't that bad - surprisingly - when we tested it. ^^'
If Rob can choose between a sword or a powerfist, his versatility would allow him to deal with Infantry, MC and Vehicules alike.
However... WS is not that relevant when taken alone. Perturabo and Dorn are I5 with only 4 Attacks, something laughable compared with Fulgrim or Curze... Ferrus is far more violent than any of the two, WS8 or not.
In the end, it all depends on special rules and the balance between the different stats. We'll see. FW never disappointed me, so I hope they will do Guilliman justice. :^) I just want him to be able to punch Lorgar to death! >8^D
PS: Sorry for my English, I love this website more than my foreign languages classes...><
Couldn't even tell you were foreign!
DeleteThanks for the kind words :)
Guilliman will be fantastic. As he is such a micro-manager I could expect him to be able to choose what turns what unit arrived on and from what board edge, basically a perfect war. I can imagine tactical rules taken from Fulgrim, Alpharius and Horus rolled into one.
I agree with most of the stats except WS I thought 7. Here's a profile I mocked up a while ago:
ReplyDeleteRoboute Guilliman ...........................480pts
..................................WS...BS...S...T...W...I...A...Ld...Sv
Roboute Guilliman 7......6.....6...5....5...6...5...10...2+
Infantry (Character)
Wargear:
Ultramar Regalia
Gladius of the Prime
The Sun's Reach
Frag Grenades
Nuncio Vox
Cognis Signum
Special Rules:
Primarch (Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, It Will Not Die, Master of the Legion)
Sire of the Ultramarines
Master Tactician
Imperium Secudus/Lord of 500 Worlds
Bulky
Sire of the Ultramarines
Guilliman and all units with the special rule Legiones Astartes (Ultramarines) special rule may choose to pass or fail all morale checks.
Master Tactician
Roboute was beyond gifted when it came to processing information and planning strategies.
After both sides have deployed the Ultramarines player may redeploy up to 3 of his units.
Each turn Guilliman may issue up to 2 orders in each shooting phase. A unit may only benefit from 1 order per turn. Each order may be issued once per turn only.
- Suppressing Fire: The target unit counts their weapons as Twin-Linked for this player turn.
- Incoming Units: The target unit gains the Skyfire and Interceptor special rules until their next player turn.
- Re-position: The target unit makes a shooting attack then immediately moves D6".
- Defend: The target unit may only make one attack per model in combat but enemy units in combat with them are at -1 to hit this player turn.
Imperium Secudus/Lord of 500 Worlds
With the exception of the Luna Wolves, no Legion conquered as many worlds, or conquered worlds as fast, or left conquered worlds in such good state during the Great Crusade, as the Ultramarines. Guilliman built a stable empire of worlds in his wake which gave him unparalleled access to men, equipment and supplies.
- Veteran Tactical Squads may be taken as troop choices.
- All squad Sergeants gain master crafted on one of their weapons for free.
- 3 times per game, but no more than once per game turn, Roboute may call down an orbital bombardment with the following profile:
Orbital Bombardment:
Range Unlimited S 9 AP 3 Type Ordnance 1, Large Blast (5"), Twin-linked.
Ultramar Regalia
This ornate suit of armour belies the protective nature of the suit. It provides Guilliman with a 2+ armour save and a 4+invulnerable save. In addition it incorporates a Void Shield Harness*
*see Book 4 Conquest relics.
Gladius of the Prime
Range - Str +1 AP 2 Type Melee, Shield Mocker, Duelist's Edge.
The Sun's Reach
Range 18" Str 7 AP 2 Type Assault 3.