Hello everyone,
I'm back with a different sort of post tonight about the Iron Hands and one of their special units!
So to set the scene, as most of you will have seen I have completed a unit of Meduson Immortals. As you would expect I was very excited about using these in battle, however, I found them to be more than a little underwhelming! lol.
What I will mention now is that I'm by no means a power gamer so that is reflected in the unit composition and weapons I chose for them. However, I would like to see how everyone in the community who plays Iron Hands does field the Immortals, but also how anyone who doesn't play them would field them too?
So I'll just have a small description of how I field the Immortals below:
The way the I have been fielding the Meduson Immortals are in a unit of ten, with seven of them having Volkite Chargers, two with melta guns and the sergeant with a power fist. In games I have played they have been equiped with melta bombs too. I believe they came to 325pts the last time I played with them but I may be slightly out without the books in front of me.
I tried to make a fluffy unit but also tried to give them some punch, but having played with them they didn't perform particularly well for their points cost. On the other hand arming them with bolters doesn't save a great deal of points and still doesn't make them any better. This is especially apparent when you compare them to the standard breacher marines who have also recently had a points reduction.
Having looked at both of the stat lines there doesn't appear to be any other significant differences between the two units other than the 5+ feel no pain the Immortals get. Now if we are missing something then please comment below as we have been mulling this one over the last few times we have played games.
Again please comment to let us know how you play the Meduson Immortals or how you would play them with your weapon choices and tactics also being interesting to hear about! :).
Thanks again,
Aveinus Kaane.
I'm setting up mine at the moment and everything I've read suggests they are an 'anvil' unit like bleachers. Low damage output, but high survivability in assault. Pair them with a 'hammer' - assault beatstick character. The immortals minimise casualties and neg combat resolution leaving the hammer to wreck face. I'm pairing Mor or a Tribune with mine in a Stormeagle. Probably better in a Spartan but.... What do you think?
ReplyDelete*breachers*
DeleteYes an interesting idea making them a unit for absorbing punishment. They have been good at taking damage for the most part but against the low AP that can beat your three plus armour save they don't hold up too well. You'll see what I mean on our next battle report! haha. But you're right I do think mine could be a lot more effective with a nasty character and a good transport!
DeleteIf it was me I would be aggressive with them! I would stick them in a land raider proteus and drive them up to where ever you need them. Hold a flank or objective or use them to slow down a nasty unit. Never charge with breacher shield equipped models as you may as well rapid fire, shot them again when you get charged and then laugh when the charging unit doesn't get any bonuses for charging.
ReplyDeleteThe Feel No Pain is a cool extra makes them more resilient. To make them more affective I would look at using them in tandem with another unit. Either a second immortal squad or may be some gorgons to provide some hard hitting.
Thanks Darien some sound tactical advice there! Do you think they could be good with chain swords? Or would you stick with weapons that can shoot when charged? There's a lot of mentions for them to be used with the Gorgons though, I'll be doing a post soon about them! Also the Immortals did manage to destroy your drop pod in the game we played along with a few reavers but again that was situational because you dropped right in front of them!
DeleteI think shooting is there strength, so I would stick with guns. With the boarding shield taking away charge bonuses it makes sense to wait to be charged as you might do some damage with the overwatch. I think the gun them down rule could do with a bit of a change to make them better!
DeleteI think the rules for them are fundamentally wrong now. I think that a Breacher squad is more valuable because they can secure objectives...and are cheaper. Whenever you play against me (it goes without saying) we will make them a scoring unit because, in my opinion, that should be their battlefield role. Stick them in a Land Raider and run them to an objective and maybe have some sort of tactical support or heavy squad giving them some fire cover. The unit themselves are very durable...not a heavy hitter.
ReplyDeleteYeah they have been very durable in most games... except against a certain mechanicum unit. But I guess everyone will get to see that next week!
DeleteYep you're just realised about them not being able to secure objectives in heresy, it definitely makes them even more questionable
DeleteThere is a RoW that makes them troops. But frankly, Breachers are overpriced (even with their new discount). +7.5 points per model for a Boarding Shield isn't worth it. Very rarely does the Hardened Armour come up.
DeleteSome people argue that you're paying a surcharge, because unlike tacticals Breachers can take special weapons (1 per 5). However, if that's the case then they should pay that price on the special weapons themselves. i.e. Increase the cost of special weapons to reflect their presence in a troop unit. Bottom line being costs go where benefits are.
Immortals exacerbate the issue. Another 5 points per model for feel no pain. It's ultimately more points in an already painful sink.
Now, after saying all of that, what I recommend is trying them in Zone Mortalis. With blast and template weapons getting shred, they are a very popular weapon option. Hardened armour comes up. Furthermore, with the way models bunch up in the tight hallways, it becomes a very box vs. box formation which makes breacher charges far stronger, instead of the normal line versus line close combats.
At the end of the day, they're bad. Much like a lot of the legion specific units. I hate sounding pessimistic, but after years of playing Heresy it's been a very common trend.
I can't say I know a lot about themy but from what's been written above they seem like a squad to hold an objective or anchor a flank!
ReplyDeleteBased on that either stick them in a rhino and drive them to an objective or stick them in a rhino next to gorgons in a Spartan and use them to shield the gorgons flank as they assault!
Or use them to hold an objective in your deployment area!
Yeah I have been using them to hold flanks and secure objectives, which they have been good at. In a game against Kaelo they were shot at by the Mor Deythan with combi-weapons and took a hammering but survived thanks to the feel no pain. It then took the sting out of that unit because they could only fire the special weapons once in the game. However, they are supposed to be a legion special unit and I guess have a some solid special abilities, which aren't really there. I'll look at fielding them with bolters though as an objective securing unit :).
DeleteI've been reliably informed that only troops score in Heresy and they are elites! No implacable advance either.
DeleteTen stock Immortals is only 5 points more expensive than a ten man breacher team with an apothecary, and in anything over that they're actually cheaper than breachers + apothecary whilst saving you that extra elite slot. The FnP, -1 S to shooting and Invuln save make for a durable tarpit/speedbump unit that can fit in a Dedicated Transport at stock size.
ReplyDelete"Gun Them Down" is absolutely useless and the option to swap bolters for combat blades is also a head-scratcher but I think they're a decent unit.
Yes you have a good point there about the -1 to the strength of their weapons with the Iron Hands special rule forgot to add that in above!
DeleteI haven't run them myself as of yet, but I intend to. My intended loadout is chargers + grav to give them a great amount of kick against light armor and infantry. Where graviton normally isn't useful on, say, a support squad because they are not as durable, I feel on Immortals they should be viable. Two of them are potent without weighing down the unit in points. Stuck in a Rhino with Outflank, they would be quite a potent foe indeed.
ReplyDeleteYeah myself have both agreed that the chargers will be excellent against xenos and human enemies but from experience of playing a few games with them, they aren't good against legionaries without the AP 5 I think. So they're a very situational unit, if you play against xenos and human enemies regularly they will be great :) but if you do get some success out of them against marines let me know!
DeleteIt's difficult to make back the points value with Immortals. They're a bit like Night Raptors and a few other Legion specific units - the default units they're based on, in this case the Breachers, have been discounted significantly while the Immortals etc have not. If they got relentless to make the graviton guns actually usable, that might make the difference. Or perhaps if "Gun Them Down" was changed to fire at full BS instead of snapshot. At the moment, there's a few circumstances where they're usable, but only a few. Best use I can see is to give em volkite chargers and a transport, and turn them into a mobile fortified bastion. The combination of FNP and a 5+ invulnerable save means regular power weapons are statistically useless against them, so they can be quite useful against things like Palatine Blades or the Locutarus Storm Squad. Unfortunately, in most other circumstances, I honestly think regular Breachers are the better choice as things currently stand. We can only hope that they'll get another rules update sooner or later.
ReplyDeleteThey're expensive but they're good objective holders (Don't take the immortal rite, god, so many points). They're amazing however in a stone gauntlet Imperial Fist Shattered Legion. T5 with -1str shooting against them, 3+ armour, FNP and the occasionally nice 6++ Shield save.
ReplyDeleteUse them to hold mid-field objectives and to form an insulating layer between backfield support and front line assault units incase anything slips through your front layer/Deepstrikes/Outflanks