So it has been longer than a year since the Horus Heresy got its first plastic Minis. I think it would be a good opportunity to reflect on this and to also see what the 30k community out there think about the last 13 months.
Resin vs Plastic.
Well an age old argument. Originally I was terrified of GW taking over the range as it was sure to mean loss of detail, mould shadows etc. The MKIV Legionaires had a bigger impact on 30k than the latter MKIII in my opinion. The detail lost on knee caps (compared to the resin raised and protruding knee pads) did upset me a little bit, as it felt like you were forced to edge highlight the edges to make it more visible. There were mould shadows on the rivets too which is never great (one big downside of plastic mounds over resin).
Size differences on the MKIV were very obvious too. The resin plates were quite slim in comparison around the shins and thighs, and is the ultimate reason why Kaelo quit his Emperor's Children for the second time. The head too is also very different in size.
The Cataphractii were very good detail-wise (only minor gripe was the static looking Pteruges), as were the subsequent Tartaros terminators. Absolutely fantastic getting these considering the price of them.
The Contemptor Dreadnought was a lazy mould in my opinion. It would have been good as a boxed game Dreadnought, but when they went ahead and released it as a boxed set I was shocked.
Then MKIII was coming and I was dreading it. It would either have to be a mould shadow heavy model or a multi part legs kit. Thank the Emperor they did them justice. Fantastic. They are extremely similar in size to the Resin ones with only slight re-working, which can easily be attributed to which forge the suit came from.
Effect on the Consumer (me).
So this has effected me in a few ways. I don't know where I stand with Forge World or what further adaptions they may need to make.
1) Currently I want to get some MKIV Assault Legionaires. Issue is the only ones readily available to me are the thin cousins of the plastic MKIV Legionaires. Are we going to be getting a beefed up plastic MKIV assault marine squad from GW? Or is Forge World going to release either an upgraded MKIV squad/or upgrade parts with weapons for the plastics?
2) Some components like the Word Bearer heads look very different when you try to mount it in a MKIV plastic torso. Will these kits be updated?
3) Will we see MKII or MKV kits? I would love to know this. If I had my choice, I would stick a new 10 man MKIV assault squad in with 20 MKII Legionaires, 10 MKV Legionaires, 5 MKI Terminators, Shang & Corswain, and have it based on the battle before The Prince of Crows between the Dark Angels and Night Lords.
4) Breachers? Are we getting MKIV upgrade sets? Will the current Breacher squad on FW get removed and turned to arms, head and shield upgrade sets?
5) the other Legion specific squads like Palatine blades, Night Raptors etc also are looking thin. Will these be tweaked in time?
Overall:
I am very pleased that Games Workshop have decided to do a plastic range. I would also always purchase a plastic generic model over it's Resin counterpart or predecessor now. I do think the Character range is better suited to the Resin sculpts that Forge World are producing as the detail is very superior.
I am hopeful that Forge World and Games Workshop will be more open about what they are planning to develop or what they are designing as I do think currently we don't 100% know where we stand.
What do you think out there?
Drake Seta
Personally plastic has made gaming in 30k alot more accessible.
ReplyDelete2 b@c box sets and 1 burning of Prospero for under £300 gives me way more models then buying resin would have allowed or even contemplated!
This therefore allowed me to spend money on some legion specific resin models (Vulkan, Firedrakes, Pyroclasts and Cassian Dracos) that otherwise I couldn't have done.
Also as never having brought resin troops before I don't notice any difference in casting levels.
I wouldn't be doing 30K if not for plastic, not only would getting all that resin be too expensive but I find modeling resin to be... less than fun, let's say :P
ReplyDeleteIt's not like the resin ones aren't available if you prefer them in the end.
I hope that the Breacher Squad gets changed to an upgrade set, so want to get a couple of full size squads of these.
ReplyDeleteThere is a set for mkiv but it has been moved to the 40k section. It takes a bit of digging but it was there last I checked
DeleteI have to agree with the two previous commenters. I never would have started getting into 30K without the plastics. Resin is too much of a pain for me to work with, and the boxed sets brought the cash price down into my range.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see expanded options interacting with the range, like Assault Marine upgrade kits to go with the plastics as you mentioned, but I think moving toward plastic was a huge step forward here.
Once scaling issues are resolved I think that the 2 different materials will really compliment each other. Currently however, I find it really disappointing that I can't field an entire army of models the same scale. Old despoiler arms are so much smaller than the ones that come on the plastic sprue (sergeant arm) or the ones that come with the new UM Breacher set. It is really annoying for people who have been doing HH since before plastic came. I now have to replace so much stuff and put projects on hold until such time as new/updated kits are released...if they are even going to get plastic versions or upgrades, which is another annoying side of it. Lack of transparency as to what is coming.
ReplyDeleteI like the new plastics and certainly welcome them to accompany my earlier resin purchases, despite the difference (indeed: collecting Alpha Legion means that I can simply explain this away very readily in terms of a narrative, so I'm not really fussed about that).
ReplyDeleteAbout the only plastic purchase I will not be making is the dreadnought -- the resin version is simply in a different league and superior in every way.
I would also love to see breachers in plastic. I might hold out for that(!)
All told I prefer the plastics. Resin infantry do nothing for me, my deathguard have been on hold for a year due to the annoyance of working with resin.
ReplyDeleteI'm more than happy if GW release more plastics for HH provided the rules stay with FW. That looks like a nice list of questions for the new year open day.
My main wants are Breacher and a despoiler upgrade kits. Also the plastic mkII.
The next set is likely to be angels of some form. Alan Bligh said they had tied up on both B@C and BoP with GW. Blood angels mkIV assualt marines would make sense. Though mkII dark angels would be good. I still hope for a HH tank or two.
Has anyone fit the heavy weapons on mkiii bodies yet? Did they fit ok?
Finally, blogger has finally died on my iPad and iPhone. Anyone else having problems?
They no longer support Blogger for iOS devices :( you have to go the long way around and use the web browser. Getting photos in is the issue with that though. Couple way around it but it is a pain.
DeleteI really like all the plastic they have done (except the contemptor, just seems really lazy) The size issue is annoying though, my Reavers don't look right next to the plastics.
ReplyDeleteI would like to see assault marines make it to plastic and MkII armour as well. Several projects I would like to do would make use of MKII and it will be very pricey to get them all in resin!
I'm just gonna throw this into the mix, seeing as we're talking about scale.
ReplyDeleteAngron really does seem to be a smaller scale than all the other Primarchs. I think they increased the scale from Fulgrim onwards in order to incorporate more detail into the sculpts. He's not only shorter, but smaller across the chest.
I love the plastic marines, although they're very different from the resin versions. It's not a problem for me, as I never bought that many legion specific units. I prefer to convert my own.
I feel you on the Angron point. I've been playing out pre heresy world eaters since 1999 using khorne berserker models. I bought book one and Angron first day. He just didn't feel like he's held up very well to the newer primarch.
DeleteAlso feel a bit neglected as a world eater player (sorry to the people with no rules/primarch yet) over the last couple years. Demon primarch Angron and chain axes that have hands attached would go a long way to helping that feeling. And gladiator weapons
I really like all the plastic they have done, but I want them to do Solar Auxilia and Mechanicum in plastic, the troops at least.
ReplyDeleteI think SA detail would be impossible to do justice in plastic. Saying that though, I would like to see a generic Imperial army force in plastic.
DeleteIt's nice for core troops like I use MKIIi for my death guard without upgrade sets except shoulder pads because I think it fits he death guard theme. When I do veterans they'll probably be with the fw upgrade sets. So until I'm done with the core of my foot sloggers I'll go with plastic mkiiis
ReplyDeleteMy only complaint, and I know some people may disagree heavily with me, is that many of these new players the plastics have drawn in want to just by normal plastic Mars pattern Rhinos, Preds, and Vindicators. To me, it ruins the "historical" aesthetic that drew me to HH in the first place.
ReplyDeleteThing is the Mars Patterns for most of the stuff vehicle wise were in circulation towards the end of the Great Crusade/beginning of the Heresy.
DeleteFor example looking through all of the art work, you can clearly see Mars Pattern rhinos all over the place, and with the Mars chassis so to come Predator and Vindicator variants.
Most of the actual differences reside in armor marks, since 7 was not available.
I had my gripes about the same things at first then just realized it was more out of being defensive about forgeworld than it was an actual issue with the use of the kits.
I know they were present. I just prefer seeing the older varients. One trend I'm noticing and definitely not liking is 40k Hunter tanks with a plastic Basilisk barrel attached being called a "Legion Basilisk".
DeleteLol well see that's not an accurate anything, that's just a kitbash. (And a poor looking one at that, but just my opinion.)
DeleteI only use second edition rhinos. I like how they look better than the forge world ones
DeleteBy and large I think the plastics are fine. I actually end up almost universally buying the resin, regardless. I've bought one B@C box, and will buy the Prospero box when I can spare the money for it also. For the independent kits, however, the Forge World equivalents are almost universally cheaper down here in New Zealand. Five resin Cataphractii plus weapons is a cheaper buy than 5 plastic Cataphractii. A resin Contemptor with your pick of weapons is MUCH cheaper than the plastic Contemptor, and a much higher-quality sculpt as well, as others have pointed out. The MkIV tactical squad box is the exception, the sheer volume of component options makes it a better deal than trying to buy the same through FW - but if all you want is ten dudes with bolters, FW becomes cheaper again.
ReplyDeleteThis might be something unique to NZ, I suppose. And it's not GW's fault the way so many seem to think - they have to pay exorbitant import duties every time they order new stock to the stores, so they have no choice but to raise the prices or they'll bleed money. But it does mean that it's simply more practical for me, at my income level, to order through FW instead.
As far as the individual sculpts go, I'm disappointed with the Contemptor specifically. It's very monopose, low in detail, and has very few weapon options available. It also has a significantly smaller chassis than the resin! That's less of an issue than it might be, but the other issues bother me a lot. I have one, but I won't go out of my way to buy another.
Contrast to that, I think the plastic MkIV marines are gorgeous, and the plastic Cataphractii are good enough I found them a joy to paint, even more than the already-fantastic resin ones. The pauldrons were also simpler to work with than the ones on the resin kit.
The two characters from B@C are also pretty decent. The Chaplain is easily converted to have whatever other melee weapon you'd like, the armour detail is stellar, and the pose, while monopose, is much more dynamic than what the poor Contemptor got. The same can also be said of the plastic Terminator Praetor. The only criticism I'm inclined to offer there is disappointment that they did not continue the FW trend of offering both helmeted and un-helmed options for those characters. I am really not a fan of doing characters bare-headed, and I know there are other people who like ALL of their characters bare-headed, so I think they missed an opportunity there. At least headswaps are usually comparatively easy though.
I don't feel too qualified to comment on the Prospero minis as I don't have the box yet. Initial impressions from photos I've seen online suggest the quality is decent enough. The Custodes are a bit monopose, but the sculpt quality looks fantastic. The Sisters of Silence have that hated concept known as titplate, but looking at them I think I won't be too hard-pressed to convert that away, so I can live with it (and I still intend to go all out with a Sisters of Battle army at some point, so I look forward to seeing them get more kits!).
As far as the future goes, a couple of other people here have mentioned doing a Dark Angels vs Night Lords box set in the Thramas Crusade, and I'd love to see that. The Night Lords are my first and biggest Legion, and my one true love among all my armies, so them getting some love from GW would be fantastic. It would also be a great opportunity to do plastic MkII armour (which Dark Angels used fairly heavily) and plastic assault marines (Night Lords loved their assault squads, after all). I'd be thrilled to see such a boxed game happen.
Decent words. Cheers for your opinion.
DeleteThe BoP box is great (personally I think better than the B@C box).
(Edited and Reposted in the appropriate place!)
ReplyDeleteOverall I like the plastics I will admit I was dreading them for various reasons, quality etc. But I am pleased with how they have turned out.
I do agree there need to be Upgrade kits from FW for breachers / assault Marines maybe even plastic variants, and leave ForgeWorld to what they do best. Titans and badass vehicles and all the Legion Specific stuff.
Since B@C came out ive Lost a lot of the "us vs. Them" sentimentality on plastic heresy, since gw has proven they can keep acceptably close to forgeworlds quality (not counting the contemptor.)
I'm in two minds about the plastic ahriman. I think FW could have done an excellent job. And produced something really crisp looking.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, the plastic ahriman looks great, and I've saved around thirty quid. Can't complain.
The plastic marines and terminators are fantastic.
Good article Drake. I for one like the fact they are scaling up the marines a bit. The mk3 and 4 look much bulkier and imposing as a marine should, The resin mark 4 was a bit too skinny for my liking. I do however agree about the loss of detail on the mk 4, and the Tartaros which again have been scaled up slightly, look fantastic.
ReplyDeleteOh I am too. They look a lot more realistic in their plastic incantation, only way they could have been better is if they had separate knee pads.
DeleteWithout the plastics there would be no expansion of the HH in the way we have seen it over the past year. This is what I had been waiting for as while I am okay with working with a few resin models with a requirement for a few hundred marines into I wouldn't to go through that with resin - not so much because of the cost, but because its so much easier to work with plastic. With the exception of the Contemptor everything has turned out great and complimented with a few special characters in resin I can't complain. They will do all the core stuff in plastic and frankly I can wait until they get around to doing assault marines or MKII.
ReplyDeleteI would definitely say that the presence of the plastics has jumpstarted my Heresy army. I think they're good for Forge World too, because I've bought much more at Forge World than I ordinarily would have once the hobby momentum got going with the plastics.
ReplyDeletePersonally I'd like Mark 5 (the studded armour) assault/jump infantry. It's just such an intimidating mark, but then, if there was mark 4 with MK4 (single engined) jump packs....
ReplyDeleteFor me, the plastics are beautiful, the custodes especially. My only drawback is that the wrists don't always line up, so a sort of half hand, half wrist lark would be good, or even pegged arms to wrists, but mobile at the body. Maybe I'm just a ham fisted oaf!
Hi pegboard, try gluing the gun hand to the wrist first. Then Glue gun arm to body. Finally Attach other arm to body. This stops severed wrist syndrome dead.
DeleteI love most of the plastics and I wish there were the vehicles in plastic too. Characters should remain resin.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to hear people's opinion on transfers vs raised emblems (i.e upgrade shoulder pads).
Personally I prefer Transfers overall, but I do like to mix in some emblem shoulder pads in more characterful Legions.
DeleteJust received BoP copy and can't wait to get my sticky fingers on them sweet sprues.
ReplyDeleteWhile I think the much lower price point is a great thing since you get a lot bang for your buck in the Heresy boxes, the scaling issues really suck. I doubt Forge World will redo Legion Specific units to fit the plastics scale.
Id like to ask, if Legion resin upgrades like heads, torsos and shoulder pads are compatible to GWs heresy plastics or too off in scale ? Would love me some Thousand sons heads and torsos.
I think the plastic are a lot better. It's stronger. Easier to work with. And b yes people complain about mould line but honestly the resin minis have much work to deal with from air bubbles to mould sluogh. I find 1 out 5 beakies are unusable.
ReplyDeleteI also find the size a lot better with the plastic. In comparison the little guys look like shrimps and you can't swap with 40k bits very well... which is huge!
All that said most of my army is actually anvil industry now. I just can't win :p
the setup is done, the costs of the thermoplastic materials and manufacturing cost of the stock are very low indeed, which drops the cost of each piece manufactured. In fact, the price of an injection molded stock can be far less than the price of a wood stock.
ReplyDelete........polypropylene fluted sheet suppliers,http://www.jx-plastic.com/polypropylene_sheets_4x8_292.html........